tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post8764845354900208..comments2024-01-20T10:59:05.037-05:00Comments on DRD's Movie Musings: Fallen Heros: The blurred grey line between them and the Anti-heroDAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09781924305051169635noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-10120411540237000522011-01-09T23:21:57.713-05:002011-01-09T23:21:57.713-05:00I never got the chance to see Les Miserables, I ha...I never got the chance to see Les Miserables, I have heard its good. Sounds like something I need to see for myself, thanks for the heads up Lancer.<br /><br />That reminds me, there is one Hero archetype not touched yet but mentioned a few times...the Tragic hero. Might try that, or perhaps look at the villian side of the coin...M.Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11357373044433213176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-70214947121103207482011-01-08T19:43:21.103-05:002011-01-08T19:43:21.103-05:00Ah, Les Miserables! I was just a little kid when I...Ah, Les Miserables! I was just a little kid when I saw it, went way over my head ("big people dem movie"). <br /><br />Haven't actually seen it since. It was also a Toronto theatre staple for, like, forever.<br /><br />Well placed. Quite sad, too. But, when I think about how the one we think is the bad guy reforms and becomes positive, while the one we think is the good guy ends up bitter and negative, I'm reminded of when Jesus says "the last shall be first..."DAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09781924305051169635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-89181349312005814962011-01-08T00:15:17.068-05:002011-01-08T00:15:17.068-05:00Are you guys familiar with the story of Les Misera...Are you guys familiar with the story of Les Miserables?<br /><br />It prominently features a tension between Valjean and Javert, a convict and a police officer respectively. After serving his sentence, the convict is hardened from a life of toil and slavery to the law. Yet he is effectively ransomed from fear by a God-fearing priest who has mercy on him, giving him the opportunity to live a new life now that he has been "given back to God".<br /><br />Javert on the otherhand, a police officer who believes himself righteous by coming from poverty and strictly adhering to the law, spends his life making sure criminals pay for their crimes. His merciless zeal blinds him in his harsh judgment of Valjean (who's former crime was breaking a window out of desperation to steal some bread), and so he chases the man as if he were but an animal. He does not believe criminals change, and so he fails to see Valjean's transformation. Indeed, Valjean becomes a better man than Javert himself. When Valjean saves Javert's life, despite all the times he tried to put Valjean back into prison, Javert finally realizes what kind of man Valjean is, and can't come to terms with how his pursuit of justice has lead him to evil. In his moral crisis, he kills himself.<br /><br />A great story of redemption and tragedy. I'm mostly familiar with the musical, but that is the gist of the story. It's interesting, because if Javert came to understand more clearly justice and mercy, there's no reason he and Valjean couldn't become great friends.<br /><br />It reminds me of a U2 song called "Until The End of the World". As you listen to the song, you realize that it is sung from the perspective of Judas, as he betrays Jesus and then becomes flooded with guilt. In the song though, he does something he doesn't do in the Bible. In his distress, he "reaches out for the one he tried to destroy" to be saved, because Jesus said He would "wait, until the end of the world". Some preachers I've heard have wondered if Judas went to Jesus to ask forgiveness if He would not have been forthcoming. But Judas chose instead to end his life.<br /><br />In many of these fallen heroes, we often see some chance for redemption. Some take it, some don't. How much greater the tragedy when you have a definite feeling that the person really could have been redeemed if they chose.<br /><br />My regards!Lancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09606191437808217148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-79242713949081032642011-01-07T09:14:05.076-05:002011-01-07T09:14:05.076-05:00Hey M. Wanderer,
Clearly, you've captured a g...Hey M. Wanderer,<br /><br />Clearly, you've captured a great example of the fallen hero in Harold Lauder. Comparing your comments with these on Stephen King's message board, it's most evident that people had high hopes for this fellow but he just couldn't meet expectations, sadly.<br /><br />Interesting thing about Stephen King in general - His delving into the supernatural is a facet of his continual dip into the spiritual. He often has characters and/or plots with a religious component.<br /><br />In all honesty, I jumped into The Stand just to explore an "end of the world scenario" and was (mildly at first) surprised that where he was going with it was towards showdown between "good and evil", complete with oracle/prophetess and everything.<br /><br />But, after reading enough of King to "get it", it's simply that King, as a writer, wishes to explore these themes and ideas through his writing. Personally, I think it elevates his writing even higher, because religion is a part of the story of life on this planet.DAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09781924305051169635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-58309578433912504382011-01-07T06:53:22.997-05:002011-01-07T06:53:22.997-05:00BTW I happen to come accross this messageboard whe...BTW I happen to come accross this messageboard when doing a search for images of Harold Lauder, It's from the Stephen King Messageboard (think the offical one), and the topic, "does anyone else feel sorry for Harold Lauder?" Very intresting and detailed discussion on his character, dealing alot with what was mentioned in this one:<br />http://www.stephenking.com/forums/showthread.php/17270-Does-anyone-else-feel-sorry-for-Harold-Lauder?s=dc68fa301a7fef45908bdf321aa5df4bM.Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11357373044433213176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-11746811884903628232011-01-03T14:07:51.287-05:002011-01-03T14:07:51.287-05:00Hmmm I had another thought. I remember a conversat...Hmmm I had another thought. I remember a conversation a mutuial friend of Lancer and myself, (lets call him 'Atec' for now)had earlier during the late summer/early fall. It was in regards to those that dont take accountablity for their actions. Think it had to do with those that dont take care of their health, and the conequences that come with that afterwards. Some of the clients/patients that I work with came into that conversation. Basicly we were in agreement that those in that postion, needed to accountable for what they have done to themselves to reach that level of poor health. Where we differd though is who is accountable for what they do afterwards while having their sessions in the hospital. Atec felt is still solely the patients since they should know better espcially by now, considering what they're there for now, and what they did (or didnt do) that brought them to that situation to begin with. I felt it was also the responsibilty of those that are taking care of those clients (those that work in the hospital and the relatives and/or care givers who need to montior them, since its clear that the patients cannot or simply refuse to change certian aspects of thier lifestyle, for the case of their health, and for us just to patch them up when they could have avoided the siuation altogether, is only giving them a false sense of security that they can always rely on the system to bail them out. To me thats just giving them an excuse to continue their bad habits.<br /><br />So in the case of this with the topic in hand, could some of these fallen heros be products (or victims) of a failed system where they were put in a corner of sorts and made the chocies they made due to what they thought was no other choice? OR are they still 100% acountble for their actions regardless of the situations and could have made diffrent decesions that wouldnt have made become what they are now? <br /><br />This is almost like the age ol arguement of Nature vs Nurture, the product of our eviorment or our own character. Interesting to see what comes up..M.Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11357373044433213176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-42877248835301966662011-01-01T22:22:59.367-05:002011-01-01T22:22:59.367-05:00Heh, I was debating orginally about using Annakin ...Heh, I was debating orginally about using Annakin in this one. But since he "redeemed" himself somewhat near the end of his life (RoJ) techicly he would be more of a fallen hero turned tragic hero. But from you discription, I guess form your perspective, he wasn't much of a hero to begin with..LOL. <br /><br />Ah your RIGHT about Harvey Dent/Two Face..espically the way he was protrayed in Dark Knight. He certianly fits the character of the fallen hero. I should have added him to this one as well. Well I'm sure nothing like this would happen to you, become the fallen hero of sorts. As for me I doubt it as well.. since most of these types meet untimely (though at time inevtable) demises..M.Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11357373044433213176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7390190125340323607.post-35950803624457679432010-12-30T16:24:54.607-05:002010-12-30T16:24:54.607-05:00Interesting topic, mate.
George Lucas hoped he...Interesting topic, mate.<br /><br />George Lucas hoped he'd fashioned Annakin Skywalker as such a fallen hero. Unfortunately, he screwed up the prequel trilogy and we never connected to Annakin as any kind of hero from which to fall - at best he was a sullen, whining brat without a noble bone in his "me me me" body (yes, Clone Wars came closest to showing how much of a butt kicker he really was, but that's Clone Wars - who but the most ardent fans have seen Clone Wars?)<br /><br />Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight, comes fairly close to your description. He loses and flips out after a life fighting crime, if I recall correctly.<br /><br />Yes, it is sad when a person's gifts go under-utilized, and they fall short of realizing a destiny of greatness - let's help each other so that doesn't happen to us!DAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09781924305051169635noreply@blogger.com